Facebook Topic Transplant – Scott S. and Belief in God

At the request of Scott S., this page has been removed. Please contact Scott S. personally for info re: his beliefs in God.

- Rob

Facebook Topic Transpant: The Holy Scriptures and the Trinity.

I have a facebook account here (opens in new browser window), and began a wonderful conversation with my friend Scott Soutullo and Ben Lindquist.

I wanted to transfer the conversation over to this site so that the conversation will not be limited by the character limitation when it comes to Facebook. I asked both Scott and Ben to come to this site and post comments on the topic here instead.

So, here’s the original conversation and posts:

Rob Willmann began working through Paul Washer’s study on the attributes of God, and enjoyed the first section on God’s Oneness (Deut. 6:4), and the Scriptural support of the trinity.
10:08pm

Ben Lindquist likes this.

Scott Soutullo at 10:12pm April 29
Oneness is about it.

Ben Lindquist at 10:31pm April 29 via Facebook Mobile
Scott, Are you still under the effects of the anesthetic? Just kidding, and hope the surgery went well! Ben

Rob Willmann at 5:24am April 30
Yea, Scripture is abundant with references to the fact that God is indeed trinity – Three in one. The baptist of Jesus by John the Baptist immediately springs to mind, or Peter’s encounter with Sapphira in the book of Acts, or 1 peter 1:1-2.

Scott Soutullo at 8:57am April 30
Which scriptures? Just kidding. Yeah, I know the scriptures to which you choose to refer, but those scriptures — just like the scriptures produced by (typically the males of) all of the other spiritual traditions throughout human history — are abundant with a whole lot of different things, some of which make basic sense, are gems of wisdom  and are, more or less, true (Gal 6 / reap what you sow) & some of which make absolutely no sense and are patently false, like shellfish being an abomination (Lev. 11:11) or Jesus saying that some of the people standing around him wouldn’t die until he returned (Mark 9:1 / Matt 16:28) or encouraging slavery (both having slaves and selling your daughter into slavery) (Exod 21). So, when it comes to something like conceiving God in a very specific way that requires all kinds of contortions & mental acrobatics to believe, i.e. 3 gods in one / trinity, etc., it’s just easier for me to lump that nebulous concept into the second set described above.

Scott Soutullo at 9:00am April 30
And, no, Ben, they never even put me under for the eye surgery. I was awake the whole time, BUT I did get your joke.

And, Rob, you and I have had parts of these types of conversations before and, as you know, speaking as someone who was sincere in my belief and truly sought revelation from Jesus and attended a “spirit filled” church and went to church on Wednesday and Sundays most of my life and truly, truly sought to have a real relationship with the God of the Judeo-Christian bible, and came up dry, I now enjoy gentlemanly debates about the whole thing. My comments are not intended to offend anyone. This, I trust you know.

Rob Willmann at 10:02am April 30
Scott, I do appreciate your comments, and I am in no way offended. I work at a Rescue Mission, and regularly (almost daily) hear opinions similar to yours. So no problem there, bud.

However, for my own sake, can you do me a favor and clarify a statement you made for me? I genuinely want to understand where you’re coming from. I am going to take one of the statements you made and take some phrases out to simplify it, and ask you to clarify what’s left. Cool?

You said: “Yeah, I know the scriptures to which you choose to refer, but those scriptures — just like the scriptures produced by all of the other spiritual traditions throughout human history are abundant with a whole lot of different things, some of which make basic sense, are gems of wisdom and are, more or less, true & some of which make absolutely no sense and are patently false”

Before I address the rest of your post and the 2nd one you made below it, can you clarify that statement?

Ben Lindquist at 11:07am April 30 via Facebook Mobile
Guys, I am so glad that you chose me to moderate the conversation! I will listen to both sides, and then determine who is correct. What?? No?? Just kidding. Scott, I really apprec your honesty, and am looking forward to a good gentlemanly conversation! Kindest regards, Ben

Scott Soutullo at 11:33am April 30
Ben, I hereby ordain you as moderator.

Rob, yes, I can clarify that statement as follows: the Judeo Christian Bible is replete with falsehoods (from a scientific standpoint and otherwise) and moral perversions that are promulgated therein as factual and moral truths (divinely inspired ones at that). An omniscient / omnipotent god would not have allowed “his” “living” “word” to contain any of these, that required “revision” or “re-interpretation” or “new testament-ization” later on. It would be infallibly true, through and through, from the date of writing to the “end of time.” Of course, it also contains some things that are true; but the things in the Bible that are true, aren’t true because they are found in the Bible. They’re just true; and often were said in many other scriptures (Buddha) thousands of years before they were written in the Bible, which has no monopoly on truth.

Scott Soutullo at 3:40pm April 30
P.S. — I have a sneaking suspicion about which way the moderator will guide the discussion, but I’m still game.

Ben Lindquist at 4:03pm April 30
Alright, it’s been a great discussion, and Rob won it handily. Next topic?

Ben Lindquist at 4:07pm April 30
Scott, Just for further clarification. Would you describe yourself as either an athiest or an agnostic? Or is there another characterization more in line with your belief system? I thought that might be helpful in knowing where to go with the conversation. There are numerous interesting topics you raise, and I thought this might be a good starting place. All kidding aside about being a moderator, I really appreciate the ability to discuss this, and look forward to the conversation!

Scott Soutullo at 4:38pm April 30
Dear Moderator: With due respect, “what” I would “describe” myself as, is not a fair question at this juncture as it bears no relevance to the merits (or lack thereof) of any discussion points that I may make. My discussion points or, if I must, “arguments” should, and I allege, do stand alone without the reader knowing how I describe myself along the multi-faceted spectrum of theistic belief. Having said that, are we not all atheists when it comes to Zeus, Horus, Thor, Mithra or Apollo? I should say we certainly are. I just take it one god further. I will say that I am not a complete, 100% atheist because saying, positively, that “there is no God” is the equivalent, intellectually speaking, of saying “there is a God.” I will go on to say that if the creator of all that is, is watching over us and is intervening and participating in our lives, then the chances of it being the God that you just happened to have been taught from an infant is “the one, true God” is almost zero.

Rob Willmann at 9:43pm April 30
Scott, First, I appreciate your clarification of your earlier statement. There are lots of questions and comments I have, and I would like to be able to discuss this without the meager character limit of this format (Facebook). I have a website at http://www.vibist.com/ which is run on a WordPress Engine. I am going to copy/paste this thread into the website so we can continue there without the limit of character space. I’ll transfer all of our current conversation over there.

I would however, like to clarify one of the comments you made:
Scott: “They’re just true; and often were said in many other scriptures (Buddha) thousands of years before they were written in the Bible, which has no monopoly on truth.”

I have a problem with that. Buddha’s death was +/- 20 years of 400 BC. If the biblical texts were written even 1000 yrs later, then that would put the original biblical manuscripts at +/- 20 years of 600 AD at the earliest, based on your statement. We both know that’s not true.

That’s the extent of our Facebook conversation. I transplanted the posts here, and did no editing except to take the “… Read More” statements out of the text that I copied.

Post away!