Phoenix Preacher and How We Treat Bullies
There’s been a “back and forth” on the blogosphere with Ken Silva and Michael Newnham (AKA “Phoenix Preacher”) concerning Leonard Sweet being uninvited from a Calvary Chapel conference due to Ken and others pointing out problems with Leonard’s theology.
I am really amazed at the comment that Michael (AKA “Phoenix Preacher”) posted in his comments section of his blog. He says:
Michael says:
May 10, 2010 at 9:33 am
What Heitzig doesn’t realize is that these people are cowards…they hide behind their blogs and their rhetoric because they don’t have the theological or intellectual capacity to defend their thinking.
There’s only one way to handle a bully…hit them square in the mouth
This comment can be found here. It’s the 12th comment.
Tell me anywhere in Scripture where we are told that “the only way to handle a bully” is to “hit them square in the mouth”. Doesn’t it seem ironic that in a post on his blog called “Selling Hate” that Phoenix Preacher is recommending violence against Ken Silva of apprising.org? Michael accuses Ken Silva and LTR of selling hate, and he’s the one recommending a beating. Uhm, how is that in any way biblical?
Ken has covered this topic in a post entitled: “EMERGENT CHURCH LEADERS AND ODMS—ONLINE DISCERNMENT MINISTRIES“.
Ken’s ministry at Apprising.org is a direct outreach of his local church. They support him and pray for him to be a Godly man and stand in the gap on the Internet. I read Ken’s article, and I certainly didn’t see any libel. I simply saw Ken stating an opinion about how Leonard Sweet’s theology doesn’t line up biblically. Ken stated:
“Despite those of us in this field of ministry being branded with the derogatory slur “ODMs,” which essentially makes us the new lepers, LTR is absolutely correct. And this is becoming a good example of the very real reason Jesus has sent forth online apologetics and discernment ministries.”
Michael (AKA Phoenix Preacher) apparently disagrees, when he states:
“Jesus didn’t send out these ministries. It’s past time to call these what they are… parachurch entities based on selling hate and fear.”
Here are some questions directly to Michael: How do you KNOW that these ministries (Lighthouse Trails and Apprising.org) are not called to do what they do? Did God reveal that to you? Michael, your statement is an absolute. You are stating that Jesus DIDN’T do something. How do you know that? Is Ken wrong? Is his local church wrong? Is Lighthouse Trails wrong? Can you prove any of this? You state that it’s all about the money, and that it’s about selling hate and fear. How do you know that? And finally, even if you dislike Ken Silva this much, what did Jesus tell you to do to enemies?
Jesus says:
Matthew 5:43-48 “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ (44) “But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, (45) so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. (46) “For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? (47) “If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? (48) “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
So, isn’t it loving to pray for those who are your enemies? Isn’t that what Ken is doing in this post where he asks his readers to pray for Samir Selmanovic? Or when he asks his readers to pray for Marcus Borg?
Instead, Michael thinks that hitting someone square in the mouth is the best action. Care to back that up with Scripture?
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Almost everyone else understood the comment in question as metaphorical.
What I don’t like about Lighthouse Trails and Apprising etc is that they divide the Body and slander the brethren without cause or proof.
Jesus said the mark of belonging to Him was our love for each other…and that the man who hates his brother is in darkness.
Leonard Sweet made a clear statement about his beliefs that your heroes refuse to even interact with.
That’s unfair, unkind, uncharitable and unChristian.
I will always stand against that…and you should too.
Michael,
Can you answer the questions that I posed to you in the original post I made? Here are all the questions I asked:
How do you KNOW that these ministries (Lighthouse Trails and Apprising.org) are not called to do what they do? Did God reveal that to you? Michael, your statement is an absolute. You are stating that Jesus DIDN’T do something. How do you know that? Is Ken wrong? Is his local church wrong? Is Lighthouse Trails wrong? Can you prove any of this? You state that it’s all about the money, and that it’s about selling hate and fear. How do you know that? And finally, even if you dislike Ken Silva this much, what did Jesus tell you to do to enemies?
Jesus says:
Matthew 5:43-48 “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ (44) “But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, (45) so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. (46) “For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? (47) “If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? (48) “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
So, isn’t it loving to pray for those who are your enemies? Isn’t that what Ken is doing in this post where he asks his readers to pray for Samir Selmanovic? Or when he asks his readers to pray for Marcus Borg?
Those were the questions. I am really not trying to be quarrelsome, because the bondservant of the Lord must not be. But I do find it strange that the accusation that you level is one of non-interaction with Sweet’s statement of faith, when you did the same with all the questions I asked you.
Thanks for posting.
Rob
[...] [...]
I have already answered your questions.
Organizations that are committed to bringing division to the Body are not of God.
If Silvas motivation was truth, he would interact with Brother Sweet and hear him out.
The same with every other target they set their sights on.
That doesn’t mean that they would necessarily be in agreement, but there could be Christian discourse.
As to disliking Ken Silva, I don’t know him.
I don’t like what he does and I believe it to be unbiblical.
“Organizations that are committed to bringing division to the Body are not of God.”
Hmm…So, spending years finding fault with the behavior of several Calvary Chapel pastors doesn’t cause division? Many people would say that Newnham’s efforts to expose guys like Heitzig certainly caused division; thus, the “ministry” of the Phoenix Preacher is not of God according to Newnham’s own statement.
The worst part of this whole thing is that Newnham couldn’t care less about doctrine; yet, he now uses it to justify attacking Silva. Newnham claims to be Reformed, but never seemed to have a problem with Calvary Chapel’s decidedly Arminian doctrine. Newnham had nothing but sympathy and respect for Chuck Smith, Jr. when Jr. left the fold and became Emergent. Newnham allowed Emergents to hold sway over the Phoenix Preacher “community” and became angered whenever someone challenged the corrupt doctrine of the Emergents.
Newnham has no standing in this debate.
“Newnham claims to be Reformed, but never seemed to have a problem with Calvary Chapel’s decidedly Arminian doctrine. ”
This is exactly what I’m talking about.
I am Reformed.
I teach, preach, and live Reformed theology.
Affirming and have fellowship with those from other traditions, does not negate my personal theology.
I have brothers and sisters from all the Christian traditions…we disagree on everything but Christ at times, but Christ is all that matters.
Michael is the final authority on doctrine, and nobody is allowed to disagree. Nobody is allowed to discern anything. Nobody is allowed to read the Bible for themselves and come to any conclusions. At best, you’d better check with Michael first, before you state those conclusions in public.
David, as one who went to college at John McArthur’s Master’s College…attended Grace Community…and was “reformed” for a time…and as a Calvary Chapel pastor’s kid…and as a participant at Phoenix Preacher for over half a year now…let me (as politely as I can muster)…disagree.
Michael is a Calvinist and Reformed and whatever other label within that genre you can think of.
He contends for the doctrines and the System of Theology he agrees with.
I know. I’ve challenged him many times from my (now) more CC doctrinal perspective…and he’s well studied in his belief system and defends his positions very well.
Here’s the big take-away…and I hope and pray you’ll actually hear and understand this…
Doctrine does not equal Salvation…outside of the core essentials of the Faith.
Character and exampling Christ speaks more to me than any sermon…than any doctrinal thesis.
The Thief on the Cross had all the “correct doctrine” one needs…he looked over at the Son of the Living God…and he confessed his sin and believed in the Savior. And, Jesus, our Messiah, confirmed his Salvation.
I grew up the son of a pastor and I and my brothers were terribly abused physically and emotionally for many years. I witnessed all kinds of wrongdoing and corruption from behind the scenes. My step-dad said and says all the right words. His “doctrine” is “correct” in many circles. He confesses with his lips, but he denies the authority of Scripture by his actions. He is in stiff-necked rebellion and unrepentance to this day…denying the truth of the many allegations brought to him and his board of elders.
Many lives have been deeply affected in a negative way by his abuse of power.
Michael’s site is largely a home for those, like me, who have been chewed up and spit out by leaders of the Church.
He is a spiritual father and pastor to many who are “the least of these”…people…human beings…from a variety of backgrounds within the Church.
I’ve learned Michael is human. He is fallible and sins like you and I. He is smart and well-versed in Church History and Theology. He’s got some sharp edges at times…he’s a fighter…BUT…he has a heart of gold. He can be “wrong” and he repents when he’s shown to be in error…which is more than I can say for many in the Church who I’ve experienced first hand.
Issues over on the PP are worked out in community with the wisdom that comes from a variety of different voices and Theological/doctrinal backgrounds…from both pastors and laity.
You’re welcome to join in any time and contend (not condemn) for the Faith.
Blessings to you as a fellow Believer.
Carol, creating division through straining doctrinal gnats (outside of the essentials of the Faith) and not engaging in a discussion to gain clarification on a target’s words is both intellectually dishonest and unwise.
Michael said, “Organizations that are committed to bringing division to the Body are not of God.”
Carol, you said, “Hmm…So, spending years finding fault with the behavior of several Calvary Chapel pastors doesn’t cause division? Many people would say that Newnham’s efforts to expose guys like Heitzig certainly caused division; thus, the “ministry” of the Phoenix Preacher is not of God according to Newnham’s own statement.”
I disagree. Heitzig caused the division by his poor character choices in leaving for SoCal when his heart took him there…only to return to CCABQ when he wasn’t received well in his new endeavor.
There were financial issues that were inappropriate and the handling of a pastor (and fellow believer) that was wrong…and many people were hurt and disillusioned by Heitzig’s actions.
God used (and uses) Michael to bring some much needed accountability to a non-denomination denominational structure that intentionally protects the pastor from the flock (via attorney-led CCOF)…but offers no check and balance…no protection for the flock from a pastor in sin.
Most of the CC guys don’t require time on the PP…however, some do. These pastors require accountability and their victims need a home…and need a community where they can learn to Move Forward and receive spiritual healing.
Your charge regarding doctrine is untrue. Michael cares very deeply (too deeply, IMO) about doctrine and Theology.
What Michael does do…is recognize that one’s doctrine and Theology does not Save…it is Faith in Jesus Christ, our Messiah, that does.
In the PP community, we have consensus on the essentials of the Faith. We have (often) heated discussions regarding the tertiary non-Salvific issues (that IMO can be a stumbling block and a distraction and open the door for division and pride in the form of trying to win an argument…rather than following Jesus and ministering to each other and sharing…in word and deed and heart…the Gospel of Jesus Christ).
Alex,
You’ll have to pardon me if I avoid the PP attack-fest that happens upon anyone that doesn’t agree with Michael’s definition of who is in line and who is out of line. The internet is big enough that you can enjoy Michael, and I can enjoy those who disagree with Michael.
Above all, I’ll just stick with my Bible, discern what I believe the Lord is showing me personally, and leave it at that. I don’t have to join the “unity” movement. Thanks anyway
I’m curious, have you ever been to Ken’s local church?
Joe, what does that have to do with the original post? No, I haven’t been there. I pastor a church in Mobile, AL. Ken’s up north.
David…no problem…go where you believe the Lord is drawing you…and keep reading the Bible…good stuff.
We can agree on Jesus our Christ…and that Salvation is through Faith in Him.
God bless you brother.